Re-activating your WoW account, or interested in "Trying Before You Buy"?Why My Raiding Guild Rocks, Part II
Ninja In My Heroic Raid!
In light of some recent comments on this blog and situations I'm seeing sprout up in-game all over the realms now that Ulduar has released, I think it's time for a Part Two of this ongoing series.
What I write here is, of course, only my own opinion about how things work in our particular raiding guild, so if you have comments, questions or constructive criticisms I'd be glad to hear 'em.
Inspiration For This Entry
To be truthful, when I write my entries, I never know how they're going to be received, and I've learned to not pre-judge my own entries as a direct result.
Sometimes entries I think will get a lot of response don't get any, and sometimes ones that I just put together because I had some funny screenshots are the ones that get the most responses.
On that tune, I got some GREAT responses to the Three Things To Do During Downtime In Raids entry I posted a few posts ago!
I thank everyone who posted a response, there's some more great entertainers there that I didn't know about at posting time (like Peggle and the Bombay Cat), and some I'll post about in the future (toy train set ;) ). Always great to read the great comments I get!
Recent Comment Re: Experience Of "Hurry Up And Wait"
Mortigan left a comment on the Three Things To Do During Downtime In Raids post, talking about his own playing adventures as a leveling Warlock, now in Northrend at level 73.
Mortigan describes a leveling group dungeon PUG getting together, and how painfully slow it tends to gets together:
"For me, the hurry up and wait comes at the beginning… usually while someone in the group searches for a healer. The 4 of us are typically spread out all over the world, and continue our solo quests or whatever, until someone finally grabs that elusive last player. Then it’s a bit more waiting while we try to get a few people to the stone (or to me, since I’m a lock) and we summon the rest. THAT’S the long wait. Then the dungeon starts…"
- Mortigan
Mortigan also wrote more, which I will answer over time in one way or another (probably through my Raiding Tips and Tricks email series which I'm regularly adding new editions to) - be sure to check it out, and feel free to ask any questions of your own.
Forgotten Qualities Of Raiding Guilds
There are many features of a Raiding Guild that non-members and Officers tend to forget about being "benefits" of their raiding guild.
Run, Valdesta, Run!
Things like dungeon group formation for Regulars, Heroics and PUG raids outside of official guild raid nights, and how much easier it is to get into a group that starts fast, moves fast, and can tromp multiple instances before calling it a night.
Above, we heard Mortigan's experience with getting together to run a dungeon. It's an experience that isn't foreign to any of us who have delved into dungeons and raids in World of Warcraft, but thankfully an experience that doesn't match what I've seen, thanks to my membership within a Heroic Raiding Guild.
An Example Of Dungeons Run With My Guildmates
Dungeons and Heroics aren't a real focus in our Ulduar 25 guild these days, but while we were all leveling from 70 to 80, or while we were all gearing up and vying for high-competition drops in the early Naxxramas raids, there was a stark difference between my Holy Priest's raiding guild and the Social/Leveling guild I was in with the rest of my alts.
In my social/leveling guild, I noticed that players were much more passive in terms of helping form a complete party, and as a result, the parties formed much more slowly and players tended to continue their own quests and journies during the wait.
In my raiding guild, the difference was noticable: The parties filled completely, quickly, and as soon as people were added to the party they started to head to the instance immediately because we're ready to go that quick.
Why The Difference In Group Formation?
I'm sure there's a whole lot of little reasons that pile all together to create this, but I'm sure all of us in raiding guilds can agree - one thing that separates us from the non-raiding/leveling/socializing group of players is that we have a different sense of PURPOSE when it comes to running Dungeons, Heroics and Raid instances.
Whether we want the challenge, the gear, the camraderie with other players or any of a billion other reasons... the result is that we gather together under a guild name with our various goals and strong senses of purpose, and from there, fast dungeon runs flow.
Why My Raiding Guild Rocks
Aside from having this collection of purpose-driven players under its tag, we have a strong sense of connection to one another even when we're playing alts not guild-tagged the same.
Patchwerk Want To Play!
We have an Alts Raiding Guild as well. It helps keep raiders connected on off-raid nights since there's only so much one can do on their main, and we all keep our playing fresh by playing a handful of alts. After going through Naxx since December, many of us are at the raiding stage with one or more alts now, too.
And while there's always exceptions and extreme circumstances that aren't as nice as most, when Raiders decide it's time to move on with their Raiding lives (ie: leave the guild), the guild line and vent server remains positive and the guilded individuals stay focused on our own various purposes quite easily.
How Does Your Guild Compare?
I'd be really interested in hearing how your guild handles things in comparison to the wee bit you know about the one I'm in.
What's cool about YOUR guild? :)
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Mine's pretty much the same, without the alts channel. All alts can get invited in the guild regardless of level or number, so there's no need for extra ways of communication.
heroics have become so much easier since dual spec... and i'm suddenly more popular than usual, if people are nice it means they can't find a tank and they're willing to risk going with me.
p.s. tag spam is uncool.
Thanks for the note!
We used to have alts in the raiding guild, and definitely that's good in terms of being from a recognized guild name, even if you're on a toon that isn't level 80 yet, but with the advent of guild banks, most of us have opted to set up a guild of our own at the very least, for the extra, sharable storage with our friends.
And of course, it's tough to get into raiding anything other than a PUG, so then a bunch of us started putting our alts in lower-down raiding guilds for off-night raids.
It keeps the main roster lean :)
Val
PS: I'm doing some work on my site to improve Search Engine traffic, but perhaps I went overboard on the tags :) I cut 'em in about half :)
I've considered moving some of my low level alts into other raiding/leveling guilds, but I love my guild chat too much. Socializing is a BIG part of the game for me, so I'd rather PuG Naxx and die in interesting ways than give up the banter when I'm playing an alt. I did roll an alt on a different server (trying to improve my Spanis), but even though druids are fun, I miss chatting with my guildies so she's leveling very slowly. She usually gets playtime when one of the officers manages to piss me off :P
PS: I know, I have friends who do SEO, this is why I noticed. Most blogs that have a gazzilion tags are trying to compensate for uninteresting content, and this is not the case.
Thanks for clearly explaining the differences between your raiding guild and previous social/leveling guilds you've been in. It really helped sort some things out, and if I keep reading your blog from now 'till lvl 80, hopefully I'll be in good shape to know what I need to know.
But this time, rather than starting with one related point and going off on a long litany of unrelated things, I'll try to stay more on topic and address your question of "What's cool about your guild?"
I'm in a leveling/social guild with probably several hundred members (but how many of those are Alts I have no clue). Generally, there are 15 or so people online at any given time - made of up a core group of us regulars, and a sprinkling of people none of us have ever heard of or seen.
Probably the coolest thing about the guild is the immediate willingness to help each other. If I'm trying to solo some quest mob that I just can't kill, all it takes is one guild message of "Can someone help me kill this guy?" and I always get an immediate Party Invite, followed by some lvl 80 arriving within minutes to kill the mob while I apply DOTs and try to stay out of the way. Pretty much everyone has this great attitude of dropping whatever they're doing to go take care of some lower lvl player.
I'm hoping to see the guild progress into doing raids, as a good number of us are now in the 70s. But there still seems to me to be a huge learning gap between what you describe about your raiding guild and what we'd be: a large, loose group of high-lvl toons accustomed to 5-man PUGs.
Thanks,
Mortigan
Great to hear from you again!
All of your comments are always great, actually! I quite enjoy thinking and writing about the contrasts between the Leveling Game and the Raiding Game, so don't stop :)
Raiding is fun, but don't let it suck you in if you really don't have the time to invest. Leveling up alts is also great fun - the second and third time around it's great to see how much easier advancing is compared to the first one you leveled :)
Val
There. Cut the Tag and Category spam waaaaaay down. As I'm working on my site I see what you mean about how crappy it looks!
Mortigan, I don't want to discourage you but.. it's going to be tough, even though Naxx isn't so hard as I heard Kara was (I started raiding when my guild was farming Kara).
The one thing you need is a raid leader. Someone to read the strategies, understand them, know what each mob does (even if they have it written down next to the PC) and who has at least some leadership abilities. We've got a main tank raid leading now and even though we're all experienced, his lack of leadership is kinda screwing us over.
And next, you need patience. There will be wipes and if people get angry after the first half hour it's no use. Your guildies sound like nice people though, so you're starting on the right foot. Also, one thing to keep in mind: venturing into Naxx right after you ding 80 isn't the best idea. Heroic/crafted gear is very good in some cases and you need all the upgrades you can get. It might be worth doing some PuGs too for gear, like VoA or OS, since geared people can carry you through even if you're in blues.
Valdesta, looking much prettier now!
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Lol... great replies. Sounds like Mortigan is in my guild (which should be re-named The Salvation Army... or the Red Cross).
I enjoy both my Horde and Alliance guild although I do believe my Alliance guild is my favorite. Although they are super casual they still make raids on time because they are considerate of each others time so that aspect isn't something that you'll only see in raiding guilds.
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Val, you wrote, "Leveling up alts is also great fun - the second and third time around it’s great to see how much easier advancing is compared to the first one you leveled :)"
Very good input - not everyone has to raid, but I haven't even begun to think about creating an Alt. Mortigan is my first toon, started a little before Christmas, I think, and my plan is to really build him up. He aspires to be like Richard (from LFGcomic). Maybe once I can say, "I am Mortigan, Chief Warlock of the Brothers of Darkness, Lord of the Thirteen Hells, Master of the Bones, Emperor of the Black, Lord of the Undead... and the Mayor of a little village up the coast - very scenic during springtime." - THEN I might start thinking about an Alt, but for now... so much work to do!
Jen had some good comments above about needing a Raid Leader. I've seen a LITTLE of that in Nexus: "This guy casts ice spells... we all need to stand right between his legs - casters included." or "Jump the entire time you attack this dragon." etc. Are raids going to require a lot more detail that that? Are you guys going over everything in excruciating detail like that horrible and lengthy strategy on the LeeRoy Jenkins video? Do you guys actually have someone on Vent saying, "I'm coming up with 32.3% (repeating of course), chance of survival."?
Lastly, regarding wipes, I've never really seen a group get angry. Just about every group I've been in has been like, "Ok, let's try that again..." and that was about it emotion-wise. There are the occasional whiners, who usually hearth out... but since I'm a lock, I just open a new gate and we grab someone else.
Thanks for the advice, guys!
Mortigan, I see where you're coming from :) I made my first alt more than a year after I rolled my warrior, when I was already raiding with her, and the real reason wasn't boredom but the fact that fury warriors had shit DPS and I wanted a pure DPS class (hence my mage).
About raid leading - yes, that's what I mean, only with bigger and more complex bosses. Plus the RL should know random things like what the trash does (continuing with the Nexus example: some mobs can be killed by ranged before aggroing the rest of the group, the mini-boss does a whirlwind etc.) None of the Jenkins stuff, at least not in my guild. And after everyone learns the fight it's just a matter of just reminding the basics (i.e. there's several bosses where you need to run in certain areas of the room when you get a debuff, and those areas need to be known by all the raid).
@ Mortigan: Nice sense of humor!
"I've never really seen a group get angry" When one mistake will cause a wipe and there are 25 people to blame AND you've been raiding for 4 hours, THEN you'll see some emotion. :) Suprisingly though, most people on wow, or at least most raiders will have a pretty good attitude.
I used to run raids for our guild before they broke up (enjoying the down time). Yes, most everyone is expected to have Vent for the sole purpose of hearing the long winded explanation that in most cases will literally take longer to explain than it will to do it. The explanation will be very similar to what you've described, just more detailed. Ohh.. and no, i've never heard a mathmatician on vent giving the probable chances of success. :)
I am working with a handful of friends from an old guild, trying to build a new guild that can do some raiding. All of these players have played for 2 or more years, and we all have 3-6 70+ players with at least half of them at 80. We have all the professions covered through 375, and most of them are close to 450.
We'd really like to do a lot more work on preparing for naxx and moving on to other fun things. We've all had really bad experiences with PUGs on Aerie Peak.
A lot of people seem to be really anti-social about helping the PUG succeed. Given the language in chat and overall behavior, I'd say that it must be a lot of kids 10-14 years old.
I've got one of my alts, a Pally healer at almost 2k healing, and that, I think will be key to us succeeding with less than great gear.
Most of the guild (just 8 people right now) have quest rewards only and many of those are lvl 78 stuff since out questing practices are to finish zones before moving on, and some 5-man dungeons along the way make it easy to never do quests in ice crown to get to 80.
What kind of recruiting practices do you all use to help manage a successful guild? That's the big question for me.
Hi :) I surf a lot of blogs and I have to say that I've enjoyed this - I enjoy your silly speak and am relieved that you can actually type and think coherently - both! woot! lol Anyway - what this last person, whispered, said is what I've been thinking. Obviously we cannot all join your guild - so how does one go about making the most of the guild you have?
I am a guild leader of a guild that has been together for about 15 months and has roughly 120 toons, mostly alts - and a tight core group of people who like to raid and play *well* and research like mad, but most of the guild are kinda... well... flaky. And I know it's our fault - we've fostered a feeling of total freedom to come and go as you like and make real life a priority. Lately I'm so frustrated as people leave to join raiding guilds (even though they love us) and I know that partly this is because I'm jealous. *I* want to go too but I'm committed to helping us find that elusive golden path that balances casual with raiding. I don't really want to join a raiding guild, I just would really love more ideas on how to make the most of the one you have :) I feel like I've outgrown my own guild and as the GL that means I have to figure out how to let it evolve yet again. We've been good at it so far, but this expansion has been a bump in road where our disparities hadn't shown in end game in BC but now seem blaring. Maybe that's off topic... but on topic all I can do is be envious of your glee LOL :D
Heya Sara!
Thanks for your great note, great to have you here too! :)
Definitely, the Casual vs Raiding line is a difficult one to toe. I could definitely write about my Social/Alts guild and how they've handled this challenge with our Guild Friends, and perhaps your questions from there could inspire more conversation, in comments and posts :)
I shall ponder!
Valdesta
While I am focused on keeping Horde Defense League more casual, there are nights when extended AFKs and half-hearted attempts to be on-time make me want to bang my head against the desk. There's something to be said for running a little more hard core.
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Sounds a lot like a guild i used to run back in the day, generally, in "small" guilds, the type that may have a lot of members, but not too many players, the guildies bond much easier, a few instance runs, and usually, everyone can see where everyone else is in terms of skill/gear etc.. its always nice to be in those types of guilds, because when/if they ever progress to raiding, its much, much, MUCH easier on everyone, because everyone knows everyone and its just so much more about having fun then just gearing. In any case, thats what type of guild i came from. =)