Re-activating your WoW account, or interested in "Trying Before You Buy"?How To Ask For Clarification On Touchy Topics
Mage Sits And Drinks
I've been mulling over this topic for a week or so, and am having difficulties formulating it into a blog entry that matches my personal beliefs of "talk about what you want, not what you don't want".
Expanding upon the topic line, I'd say this post is about how you, as a new member of a guild, can go about asking questions on touchy topics and getting a favorable response, instead of creating animosity.
Touchy Guild Topics
Anyone who has been in a guild for any length of time will be familiar with many of the standard guild-related questions that can ignite into a firey conversation in a moment's notice, such as:
- How do I get promoted?
- What rank do I need to have to be in order to gain access to the guild bank?
- I see guild heroic runs going on, how do I get into them?
- Can someone run my lowbie through an instance?
- When can I expect to get my first piece of raid loot?
- How is loot handed out in guild runs?
- Does the Guild Bank pay for repairs?
Some of the questions look completely innocuous and unable to spark such a stir amongst your guildies, but as is common: When there is conflict between what's perceived to be good for the individual and what's perceived to be good for the group, there is an argument waiting to happen.
Why These Questions Are Touchy Topics
As stated above, there's an ongoing conflict in all team activities, in and outside World of Warcraft: The conflict of "me" vs "us" when making considerations.
For example, here's a simplified situation that is pretty common in a leveling guild:
PlayerA joins a guild and is greeted with many welcomes.
People in the guild seem friendly and talkative, and when PlayerA checks the /groster, members are regularly found in instances together.
PlayerA expresses an interest in running a particular dungeon on the guild line, but is either met with silence or a few "no"s here and there. If PlayerA is a pure DPS type, any responses they get come from other pure DPS class types, but the Tanks and Healers are silent or unavailable.
Figuring it's just a bad time for their new guildmates, the idea is shelved for now by PlayerA.
Thirty minutes later, PlayerA notices there's a guild team in the very dungeon inquired about earlier, but when the team is asked, PlayerA is told the party is already full - "sorry man".
At this point, PlayerA can take many emotional roads, including getting offended, feeling left out, or just shrugging it off.
Or, another option is that PlayerA could take a more rational view, leading them to taking their observation to someone else who has been in the guild longer. After hearing what they have to say about it, a more long-term decision can be made.
The more often the situation arises without rational resolution, the more likely it is that PlayerA is going to be unable to shrug off concerns, and will be left feeling offended and/or left out which is never good for a "team".
And of course, let us not confuse commiseration with rational resolution, either - the former is just as unhealthy for the "team" as the other more emotionally-driven decisions previously mentioned.
Resto Shammy vs Tavarok
Solo Play -vs- Team Play on WoW
While it is true that we all play this game for our own personal enjoyment, it's also true that there's a lot to the game which involves group play instead of just solo play.
The most successful of your guildmates (PlayerB) will regularly join grouped teams in order to tackle harder content.
As a result, they tend to be well-geared and well-liked within the guild structure itself, and it's natural for a new guild member to see the favored attention and want to join in on it, too.
But of course, that player's skill, popularity and gearing didn't appear overnight, so hoping to join into PlayerB's dungeon groups may be a little harder than originally expected.
Harder, but not impossible, as long as PlayerA doesn't give in to the negative thoughts that pop up due to the personal insecurities we all have about how others perceive us.
How To Inquire Without Appearing Selfish
If you're new to a guild and you see a "touchy topic" you don't understand, one of your first thoughts might be to "call someone out" by asking a direct question.
On the Internet, this tends to be a Big Mistake[TM] because while it may be briefly satisfying to rev someone else up and put them on the defensive, it doesn't tend to end well. Antagonizing teammates who are a sliver away from being Complete Strangers to you isn't wise unless you like to be ganged up on and possibly booted to the curb.
A better solution is to do as PlayerB has done: Manipulated the situation in their own favor. First, by developing key relationships within the guild, and then by using those new relationships for their own benefit.
Done correctly, these key relationships will last longer than any MMORPG guild will. One day you'll be guiding PlayerC through these unwritten social laws from your solid, well-geared, well-liked position within a successful, well-run guild!
Stay tuned for more entries on this topic, now that it's been introduced!
If you enjoyed this post, make sure you subscribe to my RSS feed!Related posts:
- Strategies For Building Your Friends List
- Dungeon Tip: If You're DPS, Nobody Cares About Your Mana
- Finding A WoW Guild That Fits
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If I talk too much, just tell me or delete me! I read your blog daily (obviously), and like to comment on your great topics.
In my guild - which is one of those mammoth 200 member anybody-can-join-just-whisper-me social and leveling guilds, the questions you list come up often. I would point out though that you phrased your questions in perhaps their most proper and curteous forms.
"How do I get promoted?"
This is a pretty straight-forward, honest question and shouldn't tick anyone off. The usual response in my guild is something like, "be active, help others, contribute to the GV, recruit others, etc." The WRONG way is to nag, whine, and repeated spam chat with "Come on! Promote me! Why won't you promote me, dang it?!" Someone always seems to do this after the guildmaster is in the "promoting" mood and advances 4 or 5 people at once. I haven't seen anyone get booted for nagging, but I've seen some stern answers: "What makes you think you deserve it? Start helping people more and start depositing things into the GV - rather than wanting to withdraw all the time!" That usually shuts them up.
"Can someone run me through...?"
This pops up all the time, and I'm happy to say that there is almost always someone who will volunteer. Sometimes it's not the happiest volunteer, "(Sigh) Ok, I'll run you." but that's about the limit of complaints. Although our guild has close to 200 people, it seems that there's really only 20 or so that we regularly see. Many of the lowbies are Alts of regulars, and we ALL owe each other favors, so running someone is just par for the course. My guildmaster helps me a lot with killing difficult quest mobs and getting me into good groups like I wrote about previously. In return, I'll run his Alts anytime he wants, and I give him all the frostweave I collect. (I ran him through Sunken Temple recently - something I was suprised to find I could easily solo. I hadn't attempted something like that before.) Overall, must of us regulars will help anyone do whatever they need to do... it's one of the main things I really like about my guild. I think the exception is when someone wants a run through some horribly long instance... there's one (can't think of the name) that is some underground plant world that takes like 4 hours and drops basically nothing - I've never finished it. People wanting to run something like that tend to get a "no, that place sucks - pick something else" answer.
Regarding loot, So far it's all been based on the simple Need-Greed option. Everyone is pretty honest about what they actually need... I guess partly because it's too easy to spot a lie: "Oh, you NEED that? Why? It has less armor and less stats that what you're wearing right now!" So unless it's a true upgrade, everyone selects greed or pass, and whoever gets it, gets it.
When it comes to groups, I've never seen new people being left out... it's simply been a matter of being the right level and class. Generally grouping starts with someone in chat saying, "Hey, who wants to do such-and-such instance with me?" and 1 or 2 people usually volunteer right away. The rest of us may be busy with a quest or AH... and that's when the recruiting starts: "Hey Mort, we need 2 more, will you come?" and that's when I say, "sure!", stop questing and hearth back to Dal to port to whatever distant corner of the worlds these guys are on.
So overall, I think it's much more about the WAY the questions get asked... you can be cool and professional, or you can be immature and whiney. Same questions, different results.
Hey, no tangent on this one!
@Mortigan: Tell you to stop writing??!! No way! I love to read your feedback on my posts, it brings a big smile on my face to see that you've visited :)
This entry ... is busting at the seams with topics to write about, both from the leveling guild perspective and from the raiding guild one.
There will be more written for sure, and I look forward to your comments about your own experiences - they help me soften some of the parts of my own view that might have been hardened by personal experience and my own tainted view (as we all taint our view of the world based on our past experiences).
I like that all of you great folk who leave comments help me think more about the topics I write about :)
Even those who disagree with certain aspects!
This is actually a great list of questions to ask, before joining a new guild! Make the interview process two-way, as it should be ;)
Little things to add after Mortigan'post, I can see all that myself in my own (French) guild!
I would only mention: patience and humbleness in a first stage.
At long if the guild does not fit your needs and feelings, quit!
Mano’s last blog post..Les gazelles des Tarides
This was great information! I just joined a different guild last night, there was some unneeded drama in the other one. I was welcomed in with open arms. Hopefully I can get myself to where I really want to be. Thank you again for the Post, Awesome Read!!
Kitty’s last blog post..Well…I joined a new guild…
great topic shrimp and one which is dear to my heart. as an officer of my guild i am frequently asked these types of questions. sometimes the way the question is asked determines the response. obviously if the questions are posed in a confrontational manner, i am not very receptive.
my advice to a new member of any guild, and one i have used myself with great success is to sit back and observe the general goings on before opening my mouth. i have found it the best way to find out who is who and what is going on. another is to read the posts on the guild site that have been made before my arrival. i have spent a lot of time doing this when joining. it can be a very good indication of personalities and mood within the guild.
to arrive in a new guild and immediately begin asking questions on access to the guild bank and when loot will be received does not normally give other members, or the officers, a warm and fuzzy feeling about a new member. it immediately makes everyone feel that the new person is looking out for what they can get and doesn't give a damn about contributing to the team.
another big mistake people make is bragging about former accomplishments. "my old guild did this and i did that" will definately have your guildmates on the defensive. and if that old guild was so great, what the hell are you doing with us? why didn't you stay there? a little modesty is definately the way to go.
as far as getting into groups, my normal way as a new member was to pay attention to guild chat and wait for someone to ask: " does anyone want to run such and such" and quickly volunteer. this way you are not the person making any demands and it gives your new teammates a chance to get to know you in a non pressure environment. this goes for group quests, running alts etc. yes it may seem like you're sucking up, but you have to take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.
in a raid environment, it is perfectly fine to ask questions about your assignment if it is unclear what you are being asked to do. however, numerous comments in vent along the lines of "my old guild did it this way and i think your way sucks" generally don't gain you any favour in your new home. you have to be willing to adapt to the way your current guild does things and if you have suggestions, the way to go about making them is by either a post on your guilds forum or a quick tell to the raid leader. if the suggestion is not adopted, you have to accept that because the raid leader will know better than you do the capabilities of the guild as a whole.
anyway, i guess what i am saying is, as a new member, you really need to keep a low profile. get to know the workings of the guild and it's personality before opening your mouth and ending up with both feet in it.
cheers!
@Persias - thank you very much for your awesome input from the raiding guild side of things!
It may be easy to get geared into the first round of epics, but the more the End Game expands, the more advancement will depend on your finding a solid team and fitting in as a solid member.
What a great topic! Expect more on this topic in the coming weeks :)
After this past weekend, I have another question to add to your list:
"Can I borrow a big ol' pile of gold from you?"
I found myself this weekend in the position of being asked for 400g from a regular guildmate. This is not from a lowbie or non-regular player. This is from someone I often group with, rely on, and chat with (but do not know personally - I know NO ONE'S real name in my guild.) So what's the proper response here?
Here's how my logic ran that resulted in my somewhat risky decision:
1. I am saving for Artisan Flying Training (5000g)
2. I only have about half that right now, meaning:
3. It will be a while before I make that large purchase, therefore:
4. If I loan out 400g and he pays it back within a few weeks, I'll never miss it, plus I'll make a permanent buddy of him and he'll owe me big time.
5. If he doesn't pay me back, I could always address it with the guildmaster, who would probably reimburse me from the guild bank. (I can hope, anyway.)
So I mailed him the 400g. We'll see what happens. A previous loan of 50g to another player was never payed back... hopefully this one will be.
Any suggestions on how to better handle a situation like this?
To avoid alot of uncomfortable situations I generally message new members when when they join to welcome them and also give a brief breakdown of how our guild works.
I usually discuss about the gbank, looting, independent leveling, etc. I encourage folks to use the calendar regularly to set up groups and get involved in guild discussions so folks can get to know them.
I would say questions about the gbank and runs are the two most common questions I get.
I think some of these discussions should take place either before the guild invite or when they join. Then a new member knows exactly how things are done.
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I just found you from your twitter follow - wonderful blog!
As a guild officer myself, I used to handle these questions from anyone (no matter the tone of the question) with having a stock answer prepared (i.e. promotions and guildbank access) - they're all straightforward questions. Recently we've got a guild site up and running, and it immediately went up in the FAQs. One question I *didn't* think of, though, was about distribution of raid drops .... I'm going to go add that right now!
As for working your way into the social circle and grouping, I always want to say no (lol sorry) but I try really hard to honor each new member's request at least once if they ask for a run-thru, (1) to see if needing someone to carry them is a common occurrence and (2) meet their toon in person so I know what they look like. I can't really get to know their play style if they're just staying out of the way and looting behind me, but I can see if they're polite and let them know who I am. So far, so good.
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Eeps, 400g?
Maybe I'm cheap, but I've always been one who refused to give cash, because it's so easy to earn on the game if you put a little bit of effort into it (ie: go farm an instance or three, you level 80!)
The only way I "give money" is by giving other donations, whether it be enchants or gems or gear or glyphs.
There have been a few people who got significant donations from me but:
1) they're long-time guildmates I've played with for a while (matches yours)
2) they are lowbie dungeon-running slaves if I spend very much on them
I currently have three lowbie dungeon-running slaves in-game and not enough time to use their slavery. But when our times match, they're super happy to repay me just a little bit by running lowbies through instances to burn off rest bonus and get my family advanced a little more.
So I guess that's my recommendation - get something back for your 400g instead of the 400g, because people who have to borrow money generally ... *gasp*... never have it to pay back, either, because they aren't good at earning it in the first place - only spending it.
Perhaps I'm just cynical, however :)
Let me know how it goes!
PS: If you don't have alts to get the payback with, you have your main. Does this person run heroics and can bring you in? Are they a tank or a healer that you can call dungeon favors from?
i've made it a personal rule to never lend gold to other people. i have a good friend who has done this several times, with people we both knew for some time and got burned on the payback each and every time.
i had 5 level 70 toons in bc and have epic flying on all of them. how is this possible? well the addition of dailies is how. levelling those alts to 70 is how. doing quests at level 70 (and 80 of course) is how.
most of the people i see with no money spend their time sitting in dalaran doing i don't know what so i have a hard time feeling sorry for them. this morning, i did about 10 dailies, netted me close to $200g without even trying.
anyway, perhaps i'm cheap, but i feel i worked for the gold i have and i'm not willing to part with it because someone else is too lazy to go earn it themselves.
I'm with you, Persias!
I remember having only 1g to my name at level 20 of my first character when I made my first discovery about how stupidly easy it is to earn World of Warcraft gold.
Since then I've bought epic flying on every toon that hit level 70 and have put huge amounts of money into advancing expensive but raiding-useful professions.
Over the years I've even shared my gold earning secrets openly with in-game friends only to see them continue their path of spending and not earning, and then whining about how poor they are and asking ME for loans because I'm "good with money".
I have given cash to close friends in game, but never expected to see the cash come back. That's why I've gained "in-game boyfriend/slaves" instead - the folks I loaned cash to are people I can call upon at almost any time for a dungeon run-through for a lowbie.
Of course, they were those types of people before I gave them the cash ;)
Thought about your article this weekend. One of my alts joined a guild a week or so ago, I have contributed a ton of good stuff and am still an "Initiate"... no big deal. New member joins and as soon as all the "welcomes" come out, he wants to know if someone can run him thru SM (without even a "thanks" for the welcomes... btw). Hopefully the GM knows to keep an eye out.
Well, he paid me back. I'm amazed. When I loaned him the money, I had told him I needed the 400g back within a week (hoping I'd actually see it within 2 weeks). Exactly a day from when I loaned him the gold, he whispered, "So you still want your 400 g back, right?" I answered, "lol yes" And he mailed it right away.
And that 50 g that I loaned out a long time ago and never got back? Well, I saw him online and asked him for it, and he sent it as well.
So I'm 100% paid back on all money I've loaned out. Will I loan out money in the future? Probably. Will I expect to get it back? Not really. But I feel like I did the right thing those two times.
i guess that is the secret mortigan. if you can afford to lend the money with no expectations of receiving it back, then there is no reason to get upset. i can certainly afford to make loans to the people who have asked me but what bothers me about doing so is the loss of trust when i don't get paid back. i have always been of the mindset that if i owe someone something, i pay it back, whether it be in game or out so i guess i expect the same behaviour from others. anyway, to keep things simple i just don't do it, and it works for me.